Thanks to Kathryn B for cluing me in on this one over at Mike Cope’s blog…I am dumbfounded. So if he says things that contradict God’s will she submits to God and not to him but if he slaps her around then she must endure it until she can talk to someone at a church about it? How on earth does he separate the two like that? He is going to lose a ton of credibility on this one.
She is “simply” going to have to endure abuse “for a season”? Come on John P. You should know better. Here is the clip…
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I have a friend whose sister is in an abusive situation. The abuse is not physical, but it is real. The problem is that he is a generous giver to their church – and no one there will believe he holds her under his thumb as he does. What would J P advise in her circumstance?
Churches have failed at confronting and dealing with abuse. I agree that they should get involved, but the reality is that they don’t. Worse, they often give the same advice the Piper is giving and tell the women to endure and submit. There are significant mental, emotional, physical and spiritual issues that need to be dealt with and the majority of churches are not equipped to deal with them.
One helpful thing some churches do is to put cards in the women’s restroom with info on it about domestic violence. The men aren’t going to follow them in there so it provides a private venue to get them the information they need to get help. Churches aren’t often equipped to handle this but many communities have the resources to help women in that situation. CASA (community action stops abuse) is one organization that deals with it in our community. I am not sure if they are elsewhere as well.
Not only do I disagree with Piper here but I think this is a good illustration of the folly that can occur if we, as ministers, set ourselves up to be an “expert” where people call in to ask us our opinion on every conceivable issue. Whether it is in politics, religion, or else, when people are constantly opining on every possible issue, they are eventually going to put their foot in their mouth. There is a person here in the NYC metro area who has a call in show on the radio and public television where he gives people an answer to ever question remotely related to a biblical/Christian issue.
Piper says for the woman to seek help from the church? I was in 2 very solid (I thought) churches which gave me ABSOLUTELY NO HELP regarding my husband’s long-term adultery. To the one pastor I said, “If my father-in-law had been alive, I would have gone to him first for help, and he would no doubt have slugged his own son because of the adultery. He was nearing 80, but was still a strong man” The pastor LAUGHED. I told him it wasn’t funny.
Sorry to hear all that you went through…Rex responded to your comment below. We really have to do a better job of being on the same team, helping those who are weak and broken, etc.
I think it is safe to conclude that too often churches have dropped the ball on standing up for those who are being victimized whether it be in a domestic situation or else. I don’t think we can talk about justice much if we are unwilling to stand up for those being hurt by others.
Great points. A lot of it, hopefully, is an awareness issue. There may be abuse in our midst but we just don’t know about it. I would hope that if someone did, especially someone in leadership, they would do something about it. In fact, in some instances, they would have a legal obligation to take action to address the abuse. I don’t know if all ministers and elders realize that but they should.
I was really fortunate to have the support of church elders once when I was helping a woman and her daughter leave an abusive home. However, I have an uncle that was nearly fired from his Youth Ministry for actually calling the police on a man who was abusing his wife and children. The elders of his church thought that domestic issues are personal business and not the affairs of the church (behind that view lurks a terrible ecclesiology). They also viewed his actions as promoting divorce/separation.
I would have thought that perhaps the times have changed some and more churches realize that Christianity is a community life that means if someone in our community is abusing or being abused, the church has the right to act for the sake of the justice that God expects from his people. But after reading some comments on another blog as well as Jo Garrison’s comment above, maybe this is a lesson the church still needs to learn.
Great discussion here.
Grace and Peace,
Rex
I just came across the following in my emailed Christian Standard for today:
I thought of it when I checked my mail for the most recent comments on this post. Relevant? I should think so!
Jerry
I am Wayne Posa’s wife, this is an issue with me that I want to start to help women with. I have recently written a book to abused women and it is in the process of being published. I was abused in every way for 35 years, it started out at home with my mother, then because of familar spirits, I married into the same issues only worse. That’s what the enemy likes to do is make things worse down the line! I’m 63 yrs. young and know a lot about this subject, when you’ve been there you have the compassion to help and know what to do by the spirit! I have started a website that will be up and running in about a week. It’s CharlottePosa.com. Subheading – “To Women with Love”. I share my story and how the Lord led me through the healing of physical, emotional, sexual and spiritual abuse and to the place I could forgive and let go.! These are the kind of blogs I am looking for. I have so much compassion for abused women!!! Bless you, Charlotte — I too was in church when all this was happening and went to the pastor, but he was also like the other pastor, thought it was private domestic affair that he didn’t want to get involved in. But, today I thank him, becasue of how it all turned out and how God is using the simple to confound the wise and what the “enemy meant for harm, God has turned for His Glory and my honor!!! Beauty for Ashes!!!
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